Or, more lit. "A law which applies, you will observe, to bodies politic."Thereupon Euthydemus: Be assured I fully concur in your opinion; the precept KNOW THYSELF cannot be too highly valued; but what is the application? What the starting-point of self-examination? I look to you for an explanation, if you would kindly give one.

Or, "at what point to commence the process of self-inspection?-- there is the mystery. I look to you, if you are willing, to interpret it."Well (replied Socrates), I presume you know quite well the distinction between good and bad things: your knowledge may be relied upon so far?

Why, yes, to be sure (replied the youth); for without that much discernment I should indeed be worse than any slave.

Lit. "if I did not know even that."

Come then (said he), do you give me an explanation of the things so termed.

That is fortunately not hard (replied the youth). First of all, health in itself I hold to be a good, and disease in itself an evil; and in the next place the sources of either of those aforenamed, meats and drinks, and habits of life, I regard as good or evil according as they contribute either to health or to disease.

Or, "pursuits and occupations"; "manners and customs."Soc. Then health and disease themselves when they prove to be soruces of any good are good, but when of any evil, evil?

And when (asked he), can health be a source of evil, or disease a source of good?

Why, bless me! often enough (replied Socrates). In the event, for instance, of some ill-starred expedition or of some disastrous voyage or other incident of the sort, of which veritably there are enough to spare-- when those who owing to their health and strength take a part in the affair are lost; whilst those who were left behind--as hors de combat, on account of ill-health of other feebleness--are saved.

Euth. Yes, you are right; but you will admit that there are advantages to be got from strength and lost through weakness.

Soc. Even so; but ought we to regard those things which at one moment benefit and at another moment injure us in any strict sense good rather than evil?

Euth. No, certainly not, according to that line of argument. But wisdom, Socrates, you must on your side admit, is irrefragably a good; since there is nothing which or in which a wise man would not do better than a fool.

See above, III. ix. 5. Here {sophia} is not = {sophrosune}.

Soc. What say you? Have you never heard of Daedalus, how he was seized by Minos on account of his wisdom, and forced to be his slave, and robbed of fatherland and freedom at one swoop? and how, while endeavouring to make his escape with his son, he caused the boy's death without effecting his own salvation, but was carried off among barbarians and again enslaved?

See Ovid. "Met." viii. 159 foll., 261 foll.; Hygin. "Fab." 39,40; Diod. Sic. iv. 79; Paus. vii. 4. 6.

Yes, I know the old story (he answered). Or, "Ah yes, of course; the tale is current."Soc. Or have you not heard of the "woes of Palamedes," that commonest theme of song, how for his wisdom's sake Odysseus envied him and slew him?

See Virg. "Aen." ii. 90; Hygin. 105; Philostr. "Her." x. Euth. That tale also is current.

Soc. And how many others, pray, do you suppose have been seized on account of their wisdom, and despatched to the great king and at his court enslaved?

Cf. Herod. iii. 129.

Well, prosperity, well-being (he exclaimed), must surely be a blessing, and that the most indisputable, Socrates?

{to eudaimonein}, "happiness." Cf. Herod. i. 86.

It might be so (replied the philosopher) if it chanced not to be in itselfa compound of other questionable blessings.

Euth. And which among the components of happiness and well-being can possibly be questionable?